Filed under: Adam, Politics & Issues, Totally GAY!
Author: Adam
Date: Oct 6, 2010
Yesterday, I was cruisin’ for a bruisin’ (you know where ;) using Grindr and came upon a picture of a young black guy who had posted a smiling picture of himself with some interesting stats to accompany the profile: “Age 20, 5″10, 150 lbs… white”. Upon seeing this I burst out laughing at the sheer hilarity of it. To give it some context, your profile on the gay, hookup, iPhone app Grindr has a default of no ethnicity so one must choose to post what race they are and second, the “slipped finger” excuse doesn’t apply here as the “black” response has 5 different options between it and “white”. Realizing this choice was more than likely made on purpose I reasoned it was okay to post a screen shot of this scene to my facebook for my friends to “like” and laugh at. Just as I was about to post it however, I wondered: “Is it racist to laugh at this?” I know me, and I know I’m not a racist person but am- like the rest of the world- sensitive to the issue and always try to think before I speak and act on issues of race, religion and ethnicity. In the end, I of course posted the pic and got a bunch of fun and non-hateful comments from my friends regarding it. But, the whole situation caused me to think about race and dating on the internet.
All dating sites- to my knowledge- give the user the option to post their ethnicity, from White to Black to Asian to Mixed/Other and everything in between. Personally, I always answer. As I type that, I can hear a few of my fellow Homorazzi writers rolling their eyes saying: “Of course you do, you’re white!” Admittedly, being a part of what most would consider the “majority race” on dating sites makes it “easier” to click on the caucasion option but where the real rub lies is in choosing to write someone or not based upon their answer to this question. Being as PC as possible and naming this “racial preference”, the term still leaves a dubious taste in my Liberal and sensitive mouth… is racial preference just plain racism? Short answer in my mind is no, but I know there’s more than a couple out there who would vehemently disagree with me.
Many sites (not including Grindr) allow for a “custom search” that lets you screen out guys based on certain limits you assign. Ranging from a height minimum to maximum; a weight category; a physical build type; age; and, race, these limits allow for a streamlined man-hunt that most feel is time-saving and useful as we fly through 100s and 1000s of online cruisers. Not only a search option, many (MANY) men even post “looking for asian boys” or “prefer white or latino” or “black for black only”, and personally, I think that’s their right to do so. I know, reading those blurbs aloud sounds racist but first let’s define that word: racism is reported to be “a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.” Furthermore, it is often defined as: “hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.” While the former description sounds a little dated and master/slave geared, the latter does seem to argue against the propriety of having a racial preference for what type of man you’re looking for. So, are men who prefer/search for men of a certain race racist??
I still say no. If you enjoyed and would date all races but had a special thing for lean latino boys, does that extra crush of yours make you racist? If you are an Asian boy and have that “boi” gene in you that has you searching out bigger, older white men does that make you a racist? If you think mixed raced boys are particularly sexy then does that make you especially open-minded or again, a racist? While many would weigh their answer to each question with special thought and care, I personally blanket-answer “Nope!” to all of em’! I’m quite a black or white (forgive the pun) kind of guy when it comes to most issues and unless you think people are genetically/socially/anyway unequal because of their race then I’ll stamp you with a big ol’ R for racist, but being more turned on by a particular set of men to me is totally acceptable and pretty much exactly how we are made to cruise/date/love.
Personally, I search for men older than myself, much more built than I am and nearby proximity-wise… do any of those requirements paint me a bigot in anyway? I am very lean and like that for myself, but want a man with muscles. Am I a self-loathing twink? Does my love of gym-boys reveal something messed deep in my psyche from early childhood? Did I watch Kevin Sorbo a little too often on “Hercules” growing up? Well, yes to that last one but otherwise I think I’m not quite ready to be committed to the nut house. Having had this argument more than a couple times with predominantly non-caucasion friends who explain: “You can’t understand, you’re white!”, there is nonetheless a recent insurgence of profile by white males who announce their desire to date all races and that those who don’t “Are F-ing racists in denial!”. While I defend their right to say whatever they wish (within the bounds of decency and the rules of the site they’re posting on), I still disagree with their position.
Often this issue comes down to two things: what turns you on and what do you know. A lot of the time men opt for what is similar (similar education, religion, size and race): is this a matter of feeling comfortable with the familiar or hating and bigoting the unknown? I love meeting a guy and finding out we grew up in the same small city or have travelled to the same remote town in Spain: there’s an instant bond that is created that not only opens the date up to me but that relaxes me a little in those oh-so-nerve racking early stages. Then, there’s the “what gets ya goin’?” factor that I believe is at the root of this issue for those who would claim this preference to be one of rudeness and unjust dating practices. I can’t tell you the amount of times I heard the words: “[Insert race here] guys just do it for me!” Most often however, this statement is whispered or spoken while carefully eyeing the room for outliers who don’t match the inserted race preference. One would never hush the words: “I like redheads” (well, maybe one would… come on, gingers? Haha kidding!), but we would if the issue concerned race. Why isn’t it wrong to have a thing for- hell even a limitation to brown-eyed guys? I have never understood the attraction of eyes but have heard a litany of times that it is one of the most important factors for some when choosing a potential beau. I think that’s just fine.
While denouncing a race, stereotyping them negatively or believing them to be less-than is absolutely not okay and intolerant, I argue that if particular races have pronounced effects on your libido then go with it. Sure, take a look at why that feeling is there: is it because you’re looking for your Taye Diggs, or is it because you think all Asians are going to be bad in bed? Do you choose your friends/employees/etc based on their race or does this matter only play a role in what makes the erection erect? I see relevant differences in all these juxtaposed thought patterns.
I know this polemic and my position in it is a bit of a sensitive one for many out there but I wanted to hear how people felt about it. Setting aside the poor-me notion of “white guilt” and the disproportionate abundance of caucasion models in ads and commercials, I do accept that being among the “majority group” (even though funnily enough, in the world at large I am not and even in my city I am technically a minority as a white male), it is easier to say I don’t mind when people don’t date me cause “I’m white”. I likely get turned down a LOT less than others do due to my blond hair n’ blue eyes and I can understand how frustrating it would be to not be even given a chance because the guy I poked doesn’t like my ancestry. But, I’ve been turned down countless times because I’m not big enough or short enough etc and claiming bigoted practices doesn’t even come to mind. Again, maybe I just have it too easy to see it from the outside.
Finally, this is by no means a “gay only” topic- though being already a “minority” group I feel it’s particularly charged for our community- straights and bis alike deal with this exact issue and I welcome their valued input on this one as well! I’d love to hear what everyone thinks about this dating/cruising practice… I know most of us hide our clicked “search for” ethnicity boxes on our Manhunt profile when friends come over and want to borrow the laptop, but I say stand up for what you do or else maybe there really is something wrong with why you have that preference.
Tim
October 6th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Couldn’t have said it better. There’s a difference between racism and preference. I have Asian friends, but am I at all sexually attracted to them? Nope. Same with Blacks or Latinos. Just doesn’t crank my engine the same way a nice built white guy does.
Now if I were to say that they’re all lower than me – THAT would be racist. But I’m not a bigot because of how my body reacts to things. Nor am I racist because of my choice of who I want to get naked with.
JB
October 6th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Interesting how you mentioned that it’s much more likely that you’re comfortable with what you already know. Isn’t that a basic tenet of humanity? Why else would conflict exist from time immemorial, if not fear of “other” and preference for your own tribe? It’s an innate survival mechanism.
Being gay, though, makes many of us more likely to be less “traditional” and more into “novelty”. For example, the gays are historically known for being on the cutting edge of fashion and style, gentrifying bad neighbourhoods, and exploring the limits of sexuality.
Being generally inclined toward novelty, I, like many, have explored sex with many of the races and racial blends. Despite those explorations, perhaps tradition or familiarity does hold sway as I still prefer my own race. But even among my own race, I’ve identified more of my own preferences (through overexposure to pornography probably) such that out of 100 hot Caucasian fitness models I’ll only beat off to 1. And given the sexual choice between one of the local effeminate white twinks or a guy like John Cho, I’d definitely choose Cho. Because of that, I don’t think preference equates to racism.
Let’s be realistic here though. If I lived in India, not Canada, it’s much more likely that my partner would be Indian, or Chinese if I was in China. The limits to available partners plays a role in choosing a mate, while living in an area “breeds” familiarity with the natives.
Race is a sensitive issue because it’s long been a class issue in “white” countries, of being treated unjustly and unequally by society. Historically, Asians (like Blacks and other minorities) have only recently (in the grand scheme of things) integrated. I think many Asians still have the mindset, unfortunately, that dating a white guy will increase their social status – otherwise, you’d see many more gay Asian couples here (I’ve never even met one yet). This issue has been discussed more thoroughly and thoughtfully by others, so I won’t elaborate. But I do think that Asians (being the dominant “minority” here) in Vancouver are the first to cry racist because of their valid insecurity – i.e. when talking about racism versus preference anyway.
Furthermore, the behaviour of specific groups in a minority can unfortunately be pasted on the whole, which can cause problems. As the Pride parade spectacles which push the boundaries of what’s socially acceptable can upset some gay people and cause them to distance themselves from all gay identity, the sexually aggressive and boundary-pushing behaviour of some Asian immigrants can cause some to grow a dislike for all Asians. If you hate spinach growing up because of the way your mother overcooked it to mush, it’s not soon that you’ll learn to like it or even try it again…and even if the texture is right, some just aren’t predisposed to ever liking the flavour.
Interestingly, it’s not rare that I’ve heard some born-and-bred “Asians” here express contempt for others of their own race (e.g. the new immigrants who with bad driving habits “who give all Asians a bad name”).
I don’t know if humans behave like the rest of the natural world, but in nature, life becomes more diverse, not less. In gay sexuality, we can see people becoming more interested in specifics as time goes on, rather than liking everything. If you look at Manhunt, you can see the check-boxes for many other interests than just race. Of course, the more fetishist you become, the harder it will be to meet as many with your particular interest…but maybe easier too to meet that 5-ft Inuit dominatrix tranny into dog-training you’ve been dreaming of.
PK
October 6th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
i agree with most of what you say, adam. however, where it becomes racist is when an ethnicity or race is explicitly singled out as being undesirable i.e. “no asians please”. this is offensive to me. it’s true that we all have our preferences, but i don’t see why it’s necessary to specify what you don’t like. as a white guy, i’m unlikely to contact a guy whose profile points out things in such a negative way.
LT
October 6th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
If not racism, then racial prejudice – because by referring to a limitless diversity of people as certain discreet ‘races’ is wrong and – sorry to say it – ignorant. What *is* an Asian person? A black person? A ‘white’ person? What does someone mean when they say ‘not into asians’? There’s this assumption that there’s some intrinsic ‘asian’ quality – maybe a skin tone? Because I know asian folk who have very verrrry light skin. Hair colour? I know asian people with all sorts of hair colours. Eye shape? Hmph, I know asian people with many different eye shapes too. And body types. And mother tongues. And hobbies, interests, careers, etc.
When someone says they’re not into ‘asians,’ they are lumping an incredibly huge and diverse group of people under one (very useless) term and then applying it uniformly – even when they themselves might be surprised at the many ‘asians’ they would be into.
Patrick
October 6th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Good article, Adam. Glad you brought it up for discussion – I think it’s one of those “taboo” subjects and I’m glad you looked at it from all angles.
Adam
October 6th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
JB: thanks for your input, I definitely understand your point about hearing a lot of “GAM not seeking other GAM” on websites and out of the mouths of certain races which cause me to wonder as well if a preference off your own race is “wrong” according to those that would tout this desire as bigoted.
PK: I totally agree that rudeness about the preference being intolerable and basically hate-speak but wonder if “no asians please” is equivalent to that… is “no twinks, prefer muscle” bigoted against skinny guys to the point of rude hatred? is “no blonds” just as rude in connotation? or, is the fact that the pointed out difference/undesired characteristic is based on race what makes this wrong? taking a better comparison (more fair one), I personally strongly disagree with the mormon church’s declarations and believes and particularly their role in the anti-gay marriage issue and would not want to date a devout mormon gay… if I expressed that would that be more/less/the same level of hate of “no blonds” what about the “no asians please”? Is it wrong of me to “not want” this sect of gays…?
LT: I agree that- especially this day and age- “black” does not mean one specific thing and “white” is reserved for an exact category of people, but for the purpose of this article I kind of set aside the impossibility of absolutes. There’s no such thing as a true “brunette” as some hair is lighter than other hair but STILL you can spot one if you see one… there’s no such thing as a true “6 foot tall guy” as everyone is either a BIT over or a BIT under… still, you know what six feet means. People who- for example- don’t want to date white guys KNOW what a white guy is to them and for the MOST part we can understand/appreciate what they mean by that.
Benjie
October 6th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
I think it’s racism if only for the context and precedence. Blonde people haven’t been continually, consistently, institutionally discriminated against.
maple
October 7th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
It doesn’t make you a KKK-type racist to have racial preferences in dating. But when you state “I do not date Race X”, I think there is a VERY strong chance that you have some passive, unconscious biases – subconscious assumptions that you have not challenged.
It always strikes me as totally absurd when I hear people say “I’m not into Asians, but I would totally do John Cho (or whoever).” Um – do you think John Cho is some genetic freak of nature? No, he is just the rare Asian-American who has broken out of the stereotype of the nerdy, sexless buffoon that is so prevalent in mainstream Western media. In mainstream Western film and television, there are 10 William Hung-type characters for every 1 John Cho-type character… so of course a lot of the audience is going to subconsciously imprint people like William Hung, Long Duk Dong, et cetera as their mental image of Asian men. Is that type of stereotype informing your preference when you state “no Asians”? If so, then that is passive racism (as in you are not actively trying to discriminate against Asians, but you are tacitly accepting and helping to pass along the false and malicious stereotypes against them).
lauren
October 7th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
i really enjoyed this article adam. i found it interesting that you including a blurb to justify your view point in a larger racial context, i don’t think this needs any justification. if i were dating online and i chose to click “no white guys please” in my dating profile i think thats my right. i may not want to waste my time looking at profiles i’m less likely to be interested in, just like i wouldn’t give certain guys the time of day in real life. i know what i want. call me shallow, but don’t call me a racist.
Colby
October 7th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Very interesting topic, Adam. I am one of those white guys who is generally only attracted to other white guys. Yes, I have seen or met guys of all ethnicities that I have found attractive, and some that I have found VERY attractive. But by and large, it is white guys that does it for me. And Latins, or is that a kind of white? Or am I allowed to ask that without being racist?
Like a lot of guys, there are generally things that I find very attractive about guys. I have a “type”. I must reluctantly now admit to you all that I’m more able to go outside my type with white guys than I am to go to non-white guys. For example, my particular type is (hypothetically) short, fresh-faced younger guys with good bodies. Generally, I am more attracted to white guys outside that type than I am to non-white guys who may be close to that type. Does that make me racist?
To me, racism has also meant an aversion to other races or believing them to be inferior. I’m not averse to other races. I don’t believe non-white people to be inferior to me. Sometimes, I even forget that race exists. I watch US television shows where a black character is treated unfairly and I never put it together that it’s because of racism. I was denied entry to a club in Germany once with a friend of middle-eastern descent and didn’t realize at the time that it was because he wasn’t white.
Having said all that, I do feel a bit guilty because of my inability to feel attracted to non-whites to the same degree as to white guys. I don’t know if racial preference is racism or not. I do believe, though, that it’s not something I can control. And for that reason, I sleep reasonably well at night.
gad1n10
October 8th, 2010 at 2:37 am
‘Racism’ might have a better chance of going away if people stopped looking for it everywhere. If someone wants to date across racial lines, fine. If they don’t, just as fine.
Everyone has certain physical attributes they find visually attractive and gravitate toward, including you. Hell, even within a persons own race there are variables that wouldn’t be considered. Can you be ‘Racist’ against your own race?
There are Blacks that wouldn’t entertain dating a White guy, Asians that would never look twice at a Black. What about guys that won’t date their own race? Is that ‘racist’? Is it more racist when its a White guy stating racial/ethnic preference, or is it equally racist for everyone?
It’s no more your right to judge/criticize me because I have no interest in dating a Black guy than it is mine to judge/criticize you because you want to. And just because you’re White doesn’t automatically mean I’d consider you.
maple
October 8th, 2010 at 5:41 am
“‘Racism’ might have a better chance of going away if people stopped looking for it everywhere.”
Wow. Just wow. Are you white? Because there are a lot of non-white people who would LOVE to “stop seeing racism everywhere” except for the pesky fact that it keeps happening. It is incredibly arrogant of you to dismiss the experiences of people whose lives YOU DO NOT LIVE just because it makes you uncomfortable.
If someone is rude to you and you complain about it, how would you feel if I told you to “stop looking for rudeness everywhere”? You would think I was adding salt to the wound. That’s exactly what you’re doing here.
“Can you be ‘Racist’ against your own race?”
Yes actually. Have you seen the prevalence of skin-lightening creams in India and Africa? Dark skin is looked down on as automatically “ugly” and so people are willing to put toxins on their skin to be whiter. Western and particularly American media goes all over the world, taking the Euro-centric beauty standard with it. It has some really sad effects in other countries as well as our own.
This is isn’t your individual fault as a white person (if you are white). No one is saying, “you must personally fix all problems of racism in the world.” But at minimum you should at least understand that it is real and that there is a strong bias in favor of white men in the Western media, that you may be benefitting from in your dating life. That doesn’t make you a bad person, and nobody is saying you have to go out and date a model UN of men. But you ARE obligated to examine your own subconscious prejudices and to show some humility when a person of color relates an experience of racism. Recognize that complaints about white racism are not always about you personally.
Res
October 8th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
If darker skinned people making themselves lighter is a form of self-racism what do we call white people (or asian for that matter) who tan to look darker?
I’ve met a LOT of girls over the years (and guys) who love hittin’ the beach or the salon and soaking up the UV’s to darken up and- while I’m certainly not psychic- I’m PRETTY sure they weren’t doing it because they hate being white… just a thought.
gad1n10
October 9th, 2010 at 1:35 am
@Maple…
KKK-type racist – Are you white? – isn’t your individual fault as a white person (if you are white) [nice save!] – Recognize that complaints about white racism are not always about you personally.
You come across as having quite the issue with ‘White’ people, or am I ‘just seeing Racism where it doesn’t exist’?
You make the comment ‘there are a lot of non-white people who would LOVE to “stop seeing racism everywhere” ‘, which could be construed as implying that there aren’t any White people who hold the same view. Is that a ‘Racist’ comment, or am I ‘just seeing Racism where it doesn’t exist’? Wouldn’t an inclusive ‘lot of people’ been a more ‘PC’ phrasing? Aren’t you being equally dismissive and arrogant by categorically stating that ‘I’m dismissive’ and that it ‘makes me uncomfortable’? I neither stated nor implied that Racism doesn’t still exist on some level, only that it doesn’t need to be automatically inserted into every single interaction between people of different Races/Ethnicity/Culture.
The topic of this article was whether stating a Racial Preference in your partner is Racism. No, it’s not. You could just as easily insert Age/Height/Weight/Eye-Hair Color/etc and the answer would be the same.
Since I’m Gay and would never consider bedding a female, does that automatically make me Misogynistic? If I was Straight and would never consider dating a guy, does that automatically make me Homophobic? Stating that a Racial preference (or exclusion, if you prefer) automatically makes me a Racist is the same thing.
BTW, White, but for you to ‘dismiss’ me due to my perceived race makes you a Racist. Or do you buy in to the often-quoted opinion that non-Whites can’t be Racist? Only an idiot would believe that Racism on some level doesn’t still exist. Only a Racist would argue that it’s a one-way issue, or that it doesn’t exist between non-White also.
I stand by my statement that there are times when Racism is thrown into places/issues where it doesn’t need to be on occasion, such as ‘general’ dating preferences.
Mike
October 9th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Let me ask you this: Would you be caught dead in a club sporting a t-shirt that says “Only into white guys.”? Exactly.
Good discussion point. I don’t think it’s racist to have a racial preference (white guy, here). The only thing I’m against is when people voice their racial preference. E.g. in online profiles say things like “No blacks, no asians, etc.” It’s demeaning to those individuals.
Even when people say in their profile “Only attracted to white people or tall people or blond people”, yes it’s stating a preference, but it does a similar thing as above. If somebody messages you and they’re outside your preference you can always delete their message or respond that you’re not interested. But to voice it in your profile as a way of discouraging certain groups of people from messaging you (I mean, what a waste of time it must be to get a message from somebody interested in you but not within your preferences!) gives you a superiority complex and makes you seem like an asshole.
I guess the good thing is that if somebody includes something that excludes, it tells me about their character and is essentially a heads up to avoid befriending, let alone interacting, with that person.
Tim
October 9th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
I suppose this would be different if we were talking regular social interaction, but we’re talking dating preferences. My social interactions with people are FAR different than my sexual preferences. We’re not just talking about friends here. Perhaps friends with benefits, but I’m not one of those gays that will go ahead and sleep with anything that passes interest.
I could interject with the bitchy statement “I have standards”, but that would be what a white guy says about any undesirable person, usually white… but there is a big difference between who I am friends with and who I want to get busy with.
Racism does exist in the world – but I think this is a case where people are seeing racism where there really isn’t. I’d be racist if I only interacted with “White people” because they’re better than others. I’d be stereotyping if I said that all “Persians were hyper-aggressive and rude”. But that is all social context. And unless sex is a social thing for you (srut!) then perhaps you have a point.
I’m MUCH more picky about who I will let touch my penis. Not because I think X race is superior or inferior, but because thats what gets me going. Lets face it. Those online profiles are for sex. The RARE occasion it is for “friends”. But if you’re going to call me anything, call me cock-ist because I’m particular about the penis I’ll be rubbing up against.
kctan
October 10th, 2010 at 7:03 am
I guess the thing about stating preferences by race is what’s behind the statement. When someone says, “no asians” or “no blacks”, what do they mean? If it’s because they think they won’t relate to them (because of their perceived view of their cultures), or they don’t find them sexy enough, or they think their d*** size is too small/too large, or they are too passive/aggressive, etc? I would argue that these ideas are hard to separate, and unfortunately some of them are informed by views that stereotype specific races. (I also think that racial preferences are different from the “no twinks” or “no blonds” statements, because those characteristics are more specific than what it means to be asian or black – but another story).
In the end, I think everyone has preferences and they are informed by their views of the world, some of which can be views that stereotype others based on race, and not necessarily because they don’t think they would relate to those people. People have to just look into themselves to determine where those feelings come from. But everyone is entitled to their own preferences. I just want to date someone who is more self-aware about where they comes from.
Kate
October 11th, 2010 at 9:15 am
As a mixed race girl, I do have a preference for a particular race, which happens to be one of the races of my background, and the one I feel most connected to. The other race in general turns me off. If I married someone from that race it would feel like settling with someone my parents chose. But that doesn’t mean a particularly good-looking or nice individual of that race, or any other, wouldn’t appeal to me, nor does it mean that every guy from my preferred race looks beautiful to me.
I don’t think having a racial preference is equal to racism. It’s just a looks thing, no different from preferring skinny guys or guys with blue eyes. It’s just a matter of what looks best to you. Plus, ideally once you meet the person you’ll be more concerned with who they are than what they look like.
PK
October 12th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Mike hit the nail on the head!
The question is not whether or not it is racist to be attracted to a specific ethnicity or not, but is it racist to specify that you are NOT into that group of people? Well, it is.
If a person specifies that they are “not into asians” they are dismissing a very broad group of people and are potentially excluding the person that could make them very happy!
Adam, I don’t believe that “no asians please” is equivalent to “no twinks, prefer muscle” because being asian is not simply a look, it’s a group of cultures and languages…. I don’t understand why the negative, “no asians”, “no twinks” etc needs to be said at all. What’s wrong with just dealing with the pesky messages from people you’re not attracted to. Apparently, it’s perfectly acceptable to just ignore people in the online environment, so just ignore them! Websites like Manhunt are a big waste of time anyway, so to say that you don’t want to waste time with messages from unwanted racial groups is specious because you’re already wasting time in the first place. As our mothers used to say to us, “go outside and play”.
Dylan
October 12th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
What everyone here seems to be missing completely is that attraction is inherently discriminatory, whether it’s race, height, age, gender, sex, personality, faith, intelligence, size, weight, colouring, ability, hiv status, wealth, culture, knowledge, affiliation, etc. Everyone discriminates when it comes to sexual/romantic partners. Everyone here who has a preference racially wants to be able to say they aren’t racist, ie arn’t prejudice against any race, ie aren’t descriminatory against a race, ie views all races equally, which is admirable and understandable but ulitmately untrue by definition. If you prefer race(s) over another race(s) you are not viewing/treating them equally ie you are being racially descriminatory. Your ideas, thoughts, feelings, and behaviours differs depending on race with regards to sex.
So is it ever possible to say that someone’s sexual attraction is based on race, ie racist? YES. Do people owe it to anyone to date them or to consider to date them? No. For example, if you don’t like Asians don’t date them. But if you want people to affirm your non attraction to Asians as not racailly motivated, you are out of luck because it is just that. It does not mean that you are a racist in all parts of your life. Is it the same as denying someone civil rights/human rights based on race? No.
If people feel like they have racial preferences AND care about that kind of issue regarding sexuality and race I would suggest to spend some time thinking about why they may write off a race or why they like one race so exceedingly more than others. I would tell them to think about media images they grew up with and continue to encounter and major attitudes that dominate their social circles and society at large.
There are many reasons for someone to be attracted or not attracted to a Race. Race is a large issue with many aspects that are socially taught to be true. Race is often(and usually wrongly) conflated with issues of intelligence, athleticism, criminality, wealth, masculinity, physical attributes, power, rightness and so on. So depending on what set of aspects you use to determine someone to be attractive and whether these aspects are ones that Race “appears” to prescribe you can then logically (but based on false premises) become unattracted to to people of race altogether. These views on certain aspects that you may hold, consciously or subconsciously, about a race can be as blatantly racist as “all Black men have huge dicks and are criminals” or subtle and vague as “Asian men are somehow not as masculine as other races” or “White men are the perfect mix of masculine and feminine, they are not extreme, they are a happy medium”. Is it possible for someone to unpack these prejudices against a Race? Yes.
The issue of racism is very vast and you can tease it apart for pages and pages but the bottom line is if you like race(s) over other race(s) sexually you are sexually discriminatory based on race. And yes, it’s racist.
SS
October 17th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
It is only racism only if you say I would never date this particular group because that group did this and that. Preference is ok at certain point. People should get fined at least $1000 for that because people who get offended get depressed. No one chose their skin color.
James
October 17th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
First it doesn’t make you racist to have a preference,but it does make those guys look like assholes.I don’t know why people have to put that first and center.
CW
October 18th, 2010 at 1:54 am
I have a preference for men. Does that make me sexist? ;)
Brad Mitchell
October 21st, 2010 at 9:24 pm
This is a very interesting and timely topic in the age of on line social media. I have been on various sex sites since their inception. The broader issue at hand here is what is perceived as acceptable online social etiquette. On line social media such as sex sites like manhunt act as a perfect mirror to the dysfunction of gay culture in general. As a gay man who is over 40, HIV positive, I have been witness to racism, ageism, and internalized homophobia. Even though i have been extremely successful in life and am a very healthy vibrant intelligent man who manages his HIV…I am discriminated against…I am also white.
People are very hurtful with their intentions and declarations of what is perceived as the ideal. If your Asian and you constantly see…not attracted to Asians, or Latins, or poz guys, or older guys….the only thing you serve to do is to perpetuate intolerance and difference.
We have come upon a time when people who use social media must be more responsible with regard to who and how they discriminate against …intentional or not. Discrimination of any sort is intolerance and only serves to perpetuate hurt and segregation.
Brad Mitchell
October 22nd, 2010 at 1:45 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/13/doll.study/index.html
Jake
October 25th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
1. When it comes to sex all bets are off. We can’t always account for what turns us on, we can only account for what we do with it.
2. I love spaghetti and do not like coconut. I cant explain why. I could eat spaghetti 3 meals a day/7 days a week. I’ve tried coconut on its own, I’ve tried it in groups with other fruits and foods, but no dice. I could chew it, I could swallow it, but I wouldn’t be into it the whole time.
3. I’ve had lots of experiences with many different different races, religions, classes, domestics, imported, whatever. I have found preferences with some due to skin tone, accent, personality, endowment, submissiveness, way of cultural expression…If I hadn’t been open to these experiences I never would have learned, but once I learned why lead someone on if you don’t have to so that you don’t appear to be what your not?
5. I am a hairy guy. I prefer smooth guys.
6. 50% of the guys I’ve met have told me to shave and 50% have told me they love the hair.
7. There are both good and bad people in all races, creeds, sexes, sexualities, etc.
8. I don’t like butter on my bread, mayo on my tuna,or ketchup on anything. If I told you Ive had waitresses cringe at the thought of serving me dry toast or salad with no dressing. Isn’t your salad dry with no dressing? No, its rather wet actually, the lettuce is filled with water. I like dry toast, shoot me?
9. To all the haters ready to jump on me and call me names for disagreeing with them…Just because I don’t want to eat coconut doesn’t mean I mind if coconut exists and that its bad, just not my thing.
10. Thank you Adam for getting people to think clearly about the topic instead of correctly.
Just another opinion
October 27th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Just wanted to say that you aren’t racist for liking a certain race. You may be racist though if you exclude everyone (as if everyone is only 1 race and there are no multiracial people in the world or you’ve seen EVERYONE in the world of a certain race). I personally go off of looks rather than race. It’s just kinda rude to talk to someone and then be like “oh , you’re (insert race here) , not hot” or whatever without even seeing what they look like.
Yes there’s a difference between what you’ve been generally preferenced to in the past (because we know the media glorifies european features and lighter (not pale) skin), but you can’t judge a whole race…
and definitely don’t knock things until ya try them…
RJ
October 30th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
I’m a Canadian boy, of Filipino descent.
I have a variety of deep and meaningful friendships from many backgrounds and colours.
I am well-adjusted, successful in my career, I care about things, and I push myself to become a better person.
I know what I like, what physical traits I am attracted too, and what gets me going.
I am not sure if putting a racial preference on your online profile is racism, but I do know how reading “No Asians plz”, or “I like Asian food, but not Asian boys” or “Asians prease reave me arone” makes me feel.
Racism or not, it’s tough for me to hear.
Dave Shortt
October 30th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Our sexual desires do not develop in a vacuum. Sure, there’s a biological component to our sexual preferences, but culture plays a huge role in what turns us on as well.
Evidence for this can be found by looking at how sexual preferences have evolved throughout history and vary greatly across cultures. Sexual preferences can even evolve over a person life (ie I’m longer into 19 year olds).
So while you’re sexual preference for one race over the other might seem like something innate and beyond your control (which it may well be) it’s been informed by the larger culture, where racism is still a reality (evidenced by millions of eyelid surgeries and nose jobs by ethic minorities to look more “white”).
Which means it’s a kind of latent racism. Perhaps you can’t control it, but I wouldn’t recommend shouting it from a mountain top either.
And that’s what I take issue with. It’s one thing to have your preferences, but it’s another to say something , “No ____ please.” By saying that, you have absolutely no concern about how it might affect other people. It’s just cruel and unnecessary and a huge turn off for those of us with half a brain.
Justin
October 30th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
No one is denying that people have aesthetic preferences. The problem is the racialized tenor of the statement “I’m not into Asians.” If a guy approaches me and I do not find him attractive, I simply say “Sorry, no thanks.” I don’t see a reason of saying “I don’t like Asians or I’m not into African Americans.”
For minorities, there is a sting in that statement because it solely identifies a person with his or her racial color. We don’t like it when someone says “I don’t like you because you are gay.” Why is it that saying “I don’t like you because you are Chinese” any different?
Bryan
November 9th, 2010 at 9:49 am
The issue is THE ORIGIN of the racial preference. It was certainly not in-born. Black men are the least preferred sexual partners among gay men. Think about it. Why is that? What are the underlying feelings about black men that make this so? Many who answered that preference is not racism will understand when considering this question just how grounded the preference is in regressive ideas about what is beautiful, what is lower class, unclean etc.
Sean
December 2nd, 2010 at 5:51 am
“I don’t like you because you are gay.” Why is it that saying “I don’t like you because you are Chinese” any different?
Denial. Gay men in particular have a deep-seated fear of any criticism of sexuality. Gay sexual ethos can be summed up into a rather shallow “As long as everyone are adults and consenting..anything goes” philosophy. Gay men are so reactionary in defending their “rights” that they will deny any moral quality to any sexual expression that conforms to that philosophy. In the back of many gay men’s brains is that fear of that dreaded notion of “choice”, hence the adamant protests of “not being able to help who they are attracted to”. This really is about THEIR persecution complex as gay men, not a honest evaluation of the facts, which is that even if something is not chosen by you, that does not automatically make it right. Pedophiles don’t choose to like little kids. Society doesn’t accept their actions OR desires. BOTH are maligned, and rightfully so because they are highly dysfunctional. Gay men fail to realize that the only reason why society is coming to accept homosexuality more is due to a realization that it does not necessarily lead to social dysfunction..not simply because “i didn’t choose to be this way”
Like others have said..yes you have your “preferences”, but they were not created in a vacuum. More than likely environment played a much larger role than biology. Thus a discussion about the possibility of changing those social circumstances that create something that really is more of an ill than a right or gift, is well worth having.
Mike
March 15th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
Racial preference is a nod to general physical appearance. It’s not different than height or muscle preference. It can also be a nod to culture or fetish or trend. Since the early 2000s, white guys have become obsessed with Latinos. There’s no reason so many would suddenly like what most made no mention of in the 90s. That’s mostly trend. Then there are the size queens into blacks. That’s fetish and stereotype. Then there are those who just like features or skin. That’s just preference. None of it is bad or wrong.
Alex
May 26th, 2012 at 5:51 am
I am a 22 yo white guy who only dates white guys. And no i dont remotely feel bad. If others want to date outside their race thats nothing to do with me. Maybe there should be race specific online dating sites so nobody gets offended.
Mike
June 8th, 2012 at 12:32 am
blah blah blah. It’s ironic that the gay community would call most people to task for saying “I’m not homophobic but I just don’t think gays should be allowed to marry.” Is it just a simple matter of preference that most white gays from the southern states aren’t into black guys or minorities in general?
Paul
July 24th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
“If you enjoyed and would date all races but. . .”
That point happened very quickly and faded away. The truth is, most people online are exclusive in their racial tastes. It’s not just a preference, but a requirement. If you honestly do like and are willing to date and enjoy all races, BUT have a preference, then it’s just that, a preference. If you say “I don’t do Asians” and completely exclude all Asian no matter what, then be honest and admit it: racism.
And YES it is easy because you’re white. Being one of the “margins” in gay society makes online dating one of the worst ego abuses one can put themselves through. Over and over, and over again are these “only whites and latinos” or “not into Asians or blacks, nothing against them, just not my type” and other disqualifiers. Don’t be both black and overweight, then there’s just nothing but lonliness if you actually go by people’s “preferences” which are almost always pre-requisites.
I have no doubt the author of this article is, indeed, not a racist given how well thought out and expressed he is about this conclusion. That one line suggests his willingness to not exclude members of other races. That said, be careful not to reinforce those who actually do exclude and are thusly using this logic as a defense for what really is racial bias.
Adam
July 25th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Hi Paul- thanks very much for your message and thoughtful insight on this issue. My danged whitness always holds me back from fully appreciate the scope of the topic though I would argue being gay certainly gives me at least a bit of understanding about being marginalized and not the norm. As well, being a very very lean guy who often writes up very very muscled guys I get more than my fair share of “not into your types” and wonder if that itself is descrimination? I’d argue not, that it’s preference… but then shouldn’t that carry into things like preferring men over women, tall over short, one race over another…?
This has actually prompted me to write a new article about omitting facts on one’s profile so thank you for the inspiration there to keep this important issue on peoples’ minds.
Pat
July 25th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
Why do people even care? So they don’t want to fuck you or you to fuck them? Oh well. If you can’t handle it, don’t be on those dating sites/apps. People are too god damn sensitive these days. If they were saying you are less than human or that they are superior to you, or they treated you like less of a person because of your race then by all means burn their fucking house down and slander their name. If anything, be glad they are putting that on there because it’s a win/win. You won’t waste your time talking to them to have them shoot you down anyways, and they don’t have to say no. Maybe because I grew up overweight for forever, but I had the choice to either break down and give up or get the fuck over it. There is so much other shit to be upset about instead of people having sexual preferences.
No shade to Adam or the commenters, adam brought up a hot button issue for people and I’m simply sharing my opinion.
Dbrewer75
July 26th, 2012 at 12:03 am
The point of sites like Manhunt is to get your rocks off not make lasting friendships (or even lasting memories sometimes LOL)
I’d rather see someone be totally honest in their profile so, as Pat mentioned, nobody is wasting their time. Usually being 100% specific with what you are after is the best way to go. I’m by no means a model/porn star and I would rather not waste my time talking to guys that want that when I could easily search for someone who is specifically looking for the type I am and go from there.
It’s no different than being at the club in my eyes. I don’t think I am ugly but I do tend to carry an extra 15 to 20 pounds so people aren’t usually pushing each other over to get to me. There are those that like a thicker guy and those are the ones I would want to talk to if I was looking to hook up. So i can appreciate an honest online profile telling me “no fattys” because a) I don’t have to waste my time trying to chat them up and b) I would hate to spend however long doing the pre-meeting chat and then when it comes down to it they suddenly remember they like hairless twinks.
Same with race really… I know back in the day I would run into a lot of black guys I really hit it off with chat wise and then when pics were exchanged it was “Oh I do go for white guys”. No matter how well the conversation goes it is still going to come down to what turns you on and if I’m not it I’d much rather know up front. Besides, if the final goal is a hot lay then I’d rather be able to find out in a few minutes if it’s going to happen as opposed to hee hawing back and forth and then spending the night frustrated when it fell through because I wasn’t their type for whatever reason.
I have a Laos friend Jack who only goes for white guys. I asked him why he refused to date anything else and he plainly said “I know I want steak so why go for the whole buffet. I just am turned on by pastey whit skin” I don’t feel he’s being racist but I am glad he knows what he wants and refuses to compromise.
Personally I have had my way with just about every color of the rainbow and I can’t say I’m that fussed about one more than the other. My only preference is a butcher acting guy in bed no matter the race, eye color, whatever. If he can get his fuck on then I am pleased as punch. Does that make me a “Fem hater”… No because most of the gays I hang around are fem but I don’t personally feel the attraction to them like I do a butch guy. And I also know plenty of guys who only wanna hit it with the girliest guys they can find and are repulsed by a butch guy.
Different strokes for different folks (literally)
MDJ
November 1st, 2012 at 5:59 am
Mixed Black guy here (31), I am part white and black. And I have had white guys turn me away because I am black. That is some racist sh!t if you ask me. I can’t control what my skin color look like. If you’re only attracted to your own race, then thats fine. But to EXCLUDE a whole race of people is fvcking RACIST. I see on date sites White and Latino only. Its annoys the hell out of me. Then you see white guys who have sick fetishs for black men is disgusting. I want a man to be with me because he like me for ME. Not my black body. Just look at the porn industry.
Derek
December 13th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
I’m really tired of this argument. Racial preference is NOT racism! I can’t tell you the amount of long, drawn out, sometimes ignorant emails I’ve received from black guys (no other race) because my hook-up profiles say “into white or Latino.” One guy wrote this never ending psycho-babble rant about slavery and shit. Just stupid. I also have a preference for dark haired guys over blinds. Racist?? I take no personal offense is someone states “not into white bald guys” (me). I learned years ago that you can’t be everyone’s type-and this is nothing more than a type. Grow up and get over it and quit constantly looking for something to call racism.
J
March 10th, 2013 at 6:38 pm
Racism is part of the cultural standard here in the united states. Racism is ingrained in the majority of people here one way or another. I see a lot of back and fourth trying to get the offenders of this to see by saying no blacks or asians on their profiles is truly racism, but sad to say, its natural for people here to hold such opinions and out right say it, there is nothing wrong in doing so what so ever in their minds, thats the true ignorant nature of society here. These posts are a waste of time trying to explain and come across to a society of people severely handicapped and dumbed down by this ignorance. Blacks have it the worst here, there is little to no hope for them being the least desired to well over 85 percent of men here including to other blacks. Take a trip outside of the US and you will see a difference in this, its like night and day.