“Do You Have Time For God Today?”
Filed under: Saturday Submissions
Author: Reader Submissions
Date: Jul 26, 2009
This is what the man in front of me was asked earlier today as I completed my Saturday routine of turning up my headphones and passing the Jehovah’s Witnesses on Davie St. The man in front of me tossed his hand in the air and kept walking, and my temperature rose rapidly at the question they asked him. Why?
I grew up a Jehovah’s Witness, and although have been outside of the “religion” now for just under a decade, I still know the belief system front to back. I still know all these logistics and ideas so vividly, because it has taken me this decade to let go of the judgmental mentality that I found, years later, had nothing to do with me as a person; it was the situation in which I was raised that created those traits. Now, I understand that everyone’s personal experiences shape them into the person they become, religious or not, but research some of the things I had to believe growing up, and then tell me that I don’t have a leg up on most regarding judgmental notions.
One of such judgments was regarding gay people.
Jehovah’s witnesses, like most Christianity based in direct and literal biblical principal, believe that homosexuality is an abomination and look to 1 Corinthians 6 (verses 9-11 specifically) as justification. This places homosexuality (according to this scripture) in the same category as prostitution, idol worshipers, thieves and drunks, all not inheriting “the kingdom of God”. BTW, that’s a bad thing.
I remember growing up and knocking on door’s, preaching the bible, and coming across a homosexual couple when I was with my parents, and my Mother, after an uproar from one of the men, very calmly explained that she didn’t believe they were bad people, she just thought what they were doing was bad. Hate the sin, not the sinner. After a little more asking around and research (without giving myself away at that age), I found out that a man could be homosexual, as was the tragedy with “sin” sometimes, but could never act on it. This meant living out a lonely partnerless life. It was then explained that “everybody has their own challenges”. This came from a straight person who was allowed to have love in their lives. I never quite fully grasped that one.
My temperature rose this morning because these people were in MY community, a community that preaches a belief system of alternative lifestyles. I saw these Jehovah’s Witnesses, a religion that I know goes against everything that Davie Village stands for, offering literature to passerby’s, passing a message of intolerance on to my community. I realize that these people are dressed nicely, are clean cut, and aren’t nearly as loud and obviously hateful as Fred Phelps, but they preach the same message. Gay is wrong.
Is this my upbringing, my childhood, and everything that I’ve let go of, bubbling up in me and slanting my opinion of free speech? Or is anyone else inside of, or that have a love of, the GLBT community, have a problem with noticing these people in Davie Village more and more frequently? Is this just an issue that I have to let go of? Or is there something wrong with these seemingly harmless people, preaching their message of intolerance in a tolerant community? There’s actually no day that I have time for God, when God has no time for me and my lifestyle. What about you?
Submitted by: Nic O.
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Patrick
July 26th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Great article Nic – very interesting to hear your perspective since you grew up Jehovah’s witness. I grew up Catholic: I went to catholic school, i was an alterserver, and then when i was too old for that, I was a reader at mass, was part of the youth group and everything. I didn’t have a bad experience at all with that. It wasn’t until I came to terms with my sexuality, and ultimately when I came out that I did not feel “welcome” at church anymore. No one said I couldn’t go, but I know the church’s position on homosexuality and I don’t agree with it. I was always taught in school that God made me the way I am, and he loves me the way I am, and it is with that that I know that who I am and who I love is not wrong. God or whomever made me this way. It wasn’t a choice and who I fall in love with is not wrong.
Braden
July 26th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I also was raised Jdub. In fact when i moved here I was still a silly little closet case preaching in Vancouver, and Davie street happened to be in my territory. So this story really amuses me. Funny turn of events huh.
The sad thing with witnesses, is that most of them actually believe it. They think everyone must be told what they refer to as “the good news”, and that if they don’t give a wtiness to every human they can, that they are not pleasing god. This might just result in them not having everlasting life on the perfect earth that is JUST around the corner, (Its been around the corner since 1914, by the way). Hence the reason for them being in gay villages. That being said, i still don’t like the sight of them.
However, my advice is that if you have any knowledge of religious history, talk to them. And what better place than where we feel comfortable. Changing points in my childhood came from people i confronted in the ministry who brought up things i could not argue. When asked, the elders would not answer me and would continue that such questions were satans doing to snare me. They will fight the bibles authenticity by always bringing up prophecies which came true. Funny though, how any fulfilled prophecy outside of the bible is not acknowledged or instead is accredited to satan.
Even if they behave obstinant, the seed is still planted, and they have something to ponder over and over and over and over again, until one day, a cute jw man might just invite another sexy man over for a personal “study.”
Nic O.
July 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
I think anyone that once didn’t feel welcome by their religious community will be pleased to hear that Patrick. I know I do, and it’s nice to know it wasn’t just MY “religion”, but that other divides of “Christianity” can have the same effect.
It’s just a really good point Braden. Half of me wants to tell them I’m a satan worshiper so they’ll back off, and the other half of me that steps outside myself to look at my situation realizes that you’re right, and despite their obstinant behaviour, that they should be talked to regardless. I know how they react to points that are outside they’re views. I mean hell, every once in a while I still look back at points of that religion and think “I didn’t QUESTION THAT???”. When you’re in it, “it” is the only thing that makes sense.
But if that little seed IS planted then maybe the wheels will start turning in someone that I talk to.
Thank you for that.
Allan
July 26th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I totally understand how you felt annoyed that these guys were promoting their religion on Davie. You’re completely right – it IS our community. We’re pretty accepting but I don’t think that we have to be accepting of people who are spreading the word of hate. It’s not okay to me that anyone grows up being taught hateful things and that these people are trying to recruit people who have had to deal with that makes me so angry.
I do not think that this is an issue that you have to let go of. In fact, I too have noticed more and more bible thumpers on Davie (even at peak bar times – outside of 1181 in particular) and I wish that it was something being addressed more. Just as I’m sure that the Jehovah’s don’t want a whole group of gays outside of their Saturday meetings – I don’t want them outside of MY Saturday meetings.
I think that Braden does make a great suggestion – one that I really wish that I could take…I simply don’t have enough religious knowledge to argue with these guys. I bet you’d do a really good job helping them to see another side of things though.
Kevin
July 26th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Nic – this is a great article, thanks so much for writing it. As you know, I grew up Mormon, and Mormonism is very similar to the JW religiong. I frequently see the missionaries out and about, and while it doesn’t send a tremor of anger through me or anything like that… I’ve also never seen them on Davie Street.
I had to chuckle when I read the “hate the sin, love the sinner” line- that was exactly what was always said to me all growing up. It’s the classic line about homosexuality and when you try and argue that God made us this way, they also say the same thing: “everyone has their own challenges” – which is a lot easier for a straight person to say, knowing that it’s “okay” for them to find someone to love, marry and share their life with.
All that said, I would never try and argue the points with missionaries- JW or Mormon. The reason is because at least from a Mormon point of view, that is their job for 2 solid years. All day, every day, they preach the church’s gospel and are in such a state of commitment to that “message” that they are unwilling/unable to consider anything outside of said “message”. Of course, I’m generalizing, but for the large part- I truly believe that to be the case. I don’t fault them for it- it’s the way they were raised and they haven’t been given challenges that have given them the opportunity to question what they have grown up being told.
Perhaps our stories, situations and lives could be those things to allow them to start questioning… but when they don’t know me from Adam and I try to share with them- I have a hard time thinking it’s going to go very far.
At any rate, I too, Nic, think I would be upset to see missionaries from churches like the JW or Mormons on Davie Street. It’s hard to see them come into areas that are hard-won to be accepting of our lifestyles, etc… and see them preaching a message of non-acceptance. At least we live in a city and country that allows us to be treated as equal citizens, which puts us a step ahead of our friends south of the border.
sarah hook
July 26th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
thanks for saying it Nic. Even the presence of JW’s in a tolerant community (i wont even call it a ” is disgusting. Imagine 30 gay men attended a Hall service one evening. That would been identified as intimidation tactic. It is beyond “don’t go where you aren’t wanted- don’t go where you don’t want to be. As a straight woman, I am offended by the infiltration of hate into communities that have to work a hundred times harder to teach tolerance. I am offended at individuals who FORCE their religions on to those who have asked to be excluded. Hate is learned, taught and spread with action as often as word. Even the presence is hateful.
HOW DARE THEY!
PS: If all “sin is equal “as they say in the bible; really they should be embarrassing gay communities. How many gay people are running around getting abortions??? See. You are solving their second biggest problem. What are they bitchin’ about.?!?!?!
Kevin
July 28th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Little Sisters paves the way for how we should behave, I believe. We fight to preserve ‘everyone’s’ right, not just our own. This becomes a matter of freedom of speech. And this is coming from another ex JW, btw. I left their system of teaching many years ago, but spent 26 years raised in it actively knocking on ‘your’ door. They are a loving and peaceful people in general. If you have had a bad experience, don’t paint the entire group with the same brush. Be treated as you would be treated, with respect. You don’t have to listen to them, and they will very kindly leave you alone if asked. They are by no means forcing anything on anyone, but have integrity for their personal beliefs, something I wish more of us could put a claim to. If we claim ‘our’ community is about openness and tolerance, we must both practice and preach, or our own message will be lost to our actions.
Braden
July 29th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Oh religion. Always strikes up quite the ordeal. It’s funny how some people get so worked up and “offended” over others beliefs. I feel comfortable in saying that the other side is doing the same thing. So now we have a situation with two parties, back to back, ready to turn and see who can shoot each other first with what they view as truth. Wow. Lovely life.
JW’s are people too (no really! they are :) ), and have simply been molded by the watchtower bible and tract society in New York into a unified faith. Empathy, not “disgust” is necessary, otherwise the long chain of hatred continues within our gay community already stricken with enmity. I’m not saying let them try and convert you into their system of lies, but did you know that they believe that the religion that is most snubbed is god’s chosen people? So. With every slammed door and every rude gesture, you really just fill them up with more affirmation that what they are doing is right.
And as for pushing the government for freedom, you might just be surprised who persuaded John Diefenbaker to present the Canadian Bill of Rights. A few common ideals shared with little sisters? Perhaps.
What realllllllly does confuse me, however, is the idea of gay christians. If you are to believe in a religion which uses the bible as its main tool of law and regulation, can you really just ignore the scriptures that criminalize homosexuality? Appreciation of Jesus I understand. History backs him up. He obviously attracted large masses of people and made quite the impression. (I wonder how Oprah will be viewed in 2000 years…). I’m open to hearing other views on this.
We have to share this silly little planet, country, city, community, street. Love for people and tolerance (not acceptance) of their religion is essential to help. Religion is not gone yet. Let’s make the best with what we are presented with.