How many times have we uttered those words into the ear of the gorgeous guy who caught our eye across the club… or signed off our final manhunt correspondence with this “last check” before you head to their’s? It’s the customary question most of us singles are trained to ask instinctively before the hotel room keys are exchanged or buzz codes are passed out. I think most of the time the words flow carelessly out of our mouths and we expect to hear “yup” in reply… but sometimes we don’t. Sometimes we’re told:
“Actually, I’m positive.”
What do you do then?
Having encountered this situation about 3 times in my few years as a sexually active gay man, it has made me realize that assuming an answer from the stud with the vodka soda is not at all a given. Don’t worry, this article is not going to turn into a “you need to realize that people with HIV and AIDS are out there and that it’s not just ‘on TV’ etc.” piece. Instead, I’m looking to discuss my experience with this situation and understand how others see it.
The first time I knowingly encountered a suitor with HIV, I definitely took a pause. How did I feel about that? What sudden judgments do I have of this guy? What does this change? Discussing the issue with a few friends at the time, I was shocked to hear the gamut of possible responses. Some didn’t blink an eye, some had huge reservations, some had specific “rules of engagement,” and truthfully, some just straight up said “no”. I do believe this is- like all sexual decisions- a personal one and not to be considered “wrong” or “right” but rather viewed with open mind.
My “decision” in my first experience has remained the same throughout the years: yes to dating and sleeping together but anal sex would have to wait. It’s well-known on the site that I weekly volunteer for a wellness centre in the West End that works with people with terminal diseases, and for the men who come in that means HIV and AIDS about 90% of the time. Therefore my knowledge and awareness of the illness is pretty damn current and is given a hundred names and personalities- as oppose to some faceless disease you only ever read about. For that reason- and I’d like to think thanks to a certain level of common sense- I’ve learned that there can be zero judgment and assumptions made of anyone who is positive. Each story is unique and personal. Of course, there’s still the issue of contraction.
Having felt the frustration of conversations with clinic nurses and online forums that refuse to give a numerical answer to questions like: “Can you contract HIV from oral sex?”; “Rimming?”; “How often from safe sex as a top…a bottom?”; “How often really from barebacking?” No one stat has ever been officially passed on to me over these years… Sure, we can get vague percentages of “increased rates due to lack of condom use,” but what if something’s “60% more likely to occur” and you don’t know what the base likelihood is… What the hell is 60% more than X? Still, I’ve learned what we mostly all have: nothing from hand jobs, oral sex is really only ever a risk if open sores exist in the mouth, rimming essentially the same and of course that safe sex is a proven prevention method during anal intercourse… so long as the condom doesn’t break. So, how does this all affect our decision in the end?
I’ve found that despite these essentially communally-accepted facts, the thought of HIV and AIDS can often cause people to throw out the quantitative and focus on the emotional and experiential. Maybe I brushed my teeth too hard this morning, maybe something will hit my eye, maybe … before you get outraged or even laugh, these are actual concerns I’ve heard and read from MULTIPLE gay men, and, to be honest, people are allowed their worries and their opinions. I don’t hold anything against anyone. Personally, I wonder if even my personal and aforementioned decision to allow certain sexual acts but be very careful and wait on others is open-minded enough. But, I realize I can’t live my life worried about how others will judge my decisions- there’s always going to be opinions either way so I just have to live in a way that works with my values.
A second issue that I’ve had to consider past the “night of fun” with men who are positive is the question of an ongoing relationship. Where numbers and precautions can be easily referred to for one-off sexual encounters, the stats go a bit out the window when talk of a possible long-term relationship comes up. Relying on self-disclosure again, I’ve personally been on dates with men knowing they were positive and while of course there’s no issue of contraction with coffee, there arises the issue of falling for someone who has an illness that will always be a huge factor to be addressed and dealt with every time you express yourselves carnally. This one is definitely not a knee-jerk reaction issue. While I’ve never ended a relationship because of the man’s status, I’ve never really had a long term relationship at all so it’s hard for me to know exactly how I’d react. I’d like to think that if the emotions were there and the connection strong enough I would enter a new relationship with a positive man- but, I can’t say their status wouldn’t play a role in my decision.
This article could very well get me a LOT of flack for what I’ve spouted here, but when a close friend commented that we haven’t really discussed this topic much on the site considering it is such a huge topic in the gay world, I figured I may as well open the door for anyone to express how they feel about it. You could think me an idiot or an asshole, but either way, I’d love to hear what you think.
kodie
October 20th, 2009 at 1:11 am
Well written Article Adam!
I’ve never been in the situation myself to have to decide whether or not to pursue a relationship or One Nighter with somebody who knows they have HIV/Aids. In terms of a one nighter, I personally never have anal sex. But, if i were to put myself in that situation i would 100% expect the person who is infected to admit that they are not clean.
Having said that, there is definitely a stigma associated with having HIV/Aids so I would think that somebody infected would be more hesitant to have a one night fling and give out that very personal information to somebody they just met. But maybe i’m dead wrong and maybe it’s easier to do so, rather than going on a date and talking about it extensively.
But like i said, i’ve never been in that situation, so i’m not one to judge. I would just expect responsibility from somebody that is in that situation, however they got there!
Adam
October 20th, 2009 at 4:16 am
That’s a really interesting point Kodie! I wrote solely from the “negative” point of view on this topic and didn’t consider how a positive person would approach the one-night stand issue in terms of disclosure.
Many of the positive men i’ve met have said that it’s not up to them to tell their hookup about their status unprompted- that it’s up to the other person to ask and that THEN they would say they were positive.
As far as the law goes, unless having unprotected intercourse, that’s a legitimate approach though I know lots of people have differing opinions on this- like you said, it’s hard to open up so personally to a guy/girl you just met and don’t know. So long as they are honest when directly asked though I would always expect.
matthew
October 20th, 2009 at 7:18 am
Just a quick message coming from somebody who is HIV positive. The term ‘clean’, is derogatory and offensive. Just because I have to deal with a terrible chronic illness for the rest of my life does not make me ‘dirty’. Before talking about stigma maybe you should read your own words.
kodie
October 20th, 2009 at 8:53 am
I didn’t mean to imply that people infected with the illness were dirty, just that they didn’t have a clean bill of health last time they were checked. Also, you yourself described it as a terrible chronic illness, which with any chronic illness there is definitely a stigma to go along with that. Especially a sexually transmitted illness
Kyle
October 20th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Adam,
Great article!
matthew
October 20th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Well it is a terrible chronic illness but that still doesn’t mean that I consider myself to be ‘not clean’. I just think it’s a horrible way to state that I’ve been infected with a virus. I still shower every day like you do. Squeaky clean.
joshua
October 20th, 2009 at 10:51 am
a very questioning article. it was fantastic!!
Mark
October 20th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Good topic Adam. Rarely discussed so glad you’ve brought it up. But I do have to agree with Matthew that using the word “clean” to describe someone whom is HIV- is offensive. Not to be a word police, but the usage of the word “clean” to denote HIV- people implies that people living with HIV and AIDS are somehow dirty. Chronic illness or not, this terminology actually helps to perpetuate stigmas. I doubt somehow we would describe someone with cancer as “unclean” or “dirty” so we have to ask ourselves why we would consider someone who is HIV+ as such.
Brad
October 20th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I think this is a very good topic, and definitely think should be discussed in more detail. I am a very healthy poz man…I have never said that publicly until now. I have been poz for many years without illness or any other complications due to HIV. i have had relationships with both poz men and neg men. That being said my experience around HIV has been much more of a personal social issue.
I do not consider this a chronic illness from my perspective. although I do recognize thats not the case with everyone. However HIV today is a very manageable disease and seldom results in severe illness or death. I have been on HIV meds since my diagnoses and my viral load remains undetectable.
I do consider this topic more of an issue of internalized homophobia….the language that is commonly used around HIV is often derogatory…such as references to being “clean”. I see many people on sex sites who change their status from one site to the next. a great number of individuals will not honestly state their status for fear of public scrutiny….as this is a common reality in our community. Many people do not get tested because they fear a neg result and that will put them in a uncomfortable social sexual situation…better to just not know….and that is wrong. These are just a few of the realities that our community faces.
Rather then approach HIV with fear and loathing as many do merely out of proper lack of education we should embrace this topic with love and compassion as with any disease that inflects our fellow man our brothers in community. Peace.
Adam
October 20th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Unfortunately the language regarding ANY situation that evokes such powerful reactions is going to have it’s limitations and faults. “Clean” has been used to describe people who are negative for decades and when writing the article I wanted a title that would be recognizable to the masses- and in my experience is the sentence most used to ask the question. Hoping to immediately make aware my topic I went with what people would recognize.
Still, the connotation of the word IS clearly something that people can of course take offense to. So is the word “diseased” or “ill” of course for that matter… hell, who could ever claim they don’t have ANY illnesses… that’s of course impossible to know at any moment for 100% surety. There’s of course the issue of “illness” vs. “disease” (which i’m writing about in a future article) and it again comes done to semantics of such specific denotative differences that even the Centre for Disease Control allows either use while some people are so offended and “outraged” by the “archaic” term STD that they rail on those who use the term despite the PC protest.
I think we add our own feelings to what we hear and if contextually read that no one is attempting to offend with the language they choose (ie. like me using the word “black” to describe a friend’s race)- and I do hope my article didn’t come across as judgmental- then you can see through to the message and not just the word-by-word etymological specifics.
BUT, as someone who hasn’t felt what it’s like to be asked if “clean” and had to say “no” to that question I don’t know what it feels like, you’re right- so it is good to hear your two opinions on that because I haven’t been in that situation so wouldn’t know how i’d really about it.
Finally, just to make it clear, when I’ve personally been asked that question, I assume it to mean the ENTIRE list of std’s… am I “clean” to me means do you have ZERO STDs… I don’t think it means HIV only… but maybe that’s just me. And, not that it softens the blow of the term, but I think that may be why I think it’s less HIV specifically judging because of that.
Adam
October 20th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Thanks for bringing up the notion of “innocence in ignorance” Brad. My article only really touched upon the aspect of the “tested?” part of the question. When and how often people are tested is of course paramount to the issue as being afraid to get tested for fear of any std contraction- HIV I think being at the top of that list though- is a huge issue. Especially when we think people will react by shutting down to those who are positive in spite of the option of safe sex. Thanks for your input!
Mark
October 20th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Adam, I at no point thought you were intentionally trying to offend anyone with this article or your terminology. And I appreciate that you bring up the topic of disclosure especially. And yes, we could talk for days about semantics and words but really? clean? I dunno. It may be a term that is popular (but so is faggot, and it’s popularity in a certain context does not mean it offends less) and I understand you want to speak in a language that is accessible but that was kind of my point. The fact that many of us use the term clean to describe ourselves as is HIV- etc. IS what is helping to perpetuate the stigmas many of us also claim to be fighting. Including your use in the article. Perhaps if it were in quotes. I know, now I’m just being picky. I’ll shut up now.
Brad
October 20th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
thank you Adam for your response and opinions around this hot issue and the words we chose to use around it. I think a really great article for you to approach in future is our language within our community and with each other in reference to many derogatory remarks that denote internalized homophobia…like many men in the gay community i spend time on various sex sites and am often shocked at what people write in personal profiles. a good exercise is to remove yourself emotionally and go on manhunt…which i think top the list and read peoples profiles openly and objectively and you will be shocked amazed at some of the remarks that you will read with regard to race, HIV, age, one of my pet peeves is the term “straight acting” why can’t this term simply be referred to as masculine? you may ask what does this have to do with this article. Actually …everything…it denoted derogatory language that we use in reference to anything we fear or don’t like. to have a healthy community or society…this language should change. i have know people who have actually died by their own means because of the negative stereo in our community that they felt they could not over come…specifically to age and HIV….I think this is very sad….as i mentioned “fear and loathing” verses ‘love and compassion” we all grow old and we all get disease…this is life….its how we cope and treat each other that makes all the difference in the world.
Adam
October 20th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
No mark, don’t you dare shut up ;) What you’re saying is totally valid, and I think if you’d be willing- or Brad for that matter- write for our saturday submission it sounds like you guys have a great style for this commenting and “writing thing” and you should have your voice heard on this and other topics like “gay language”.
To be a calculating and logistical for a moment, the term “clean” is hugely searched by younger (not exclusively of course) gay kids when searching for topics like HIV and condom on sites like Google, so to be able to be found by them I have to appeal a bit to the masses occasionally when choosing my language. As they’re who I most want to affect with articles like these, I do have to make sure they can find this article in the first place… though the quotation marks are an option you’re right- it’s just this article was more a question of partner choice than language. But, the issue can’t be ignored you’re right.
Brad, when I was on manhunt i did see a LOT of really shocking and aggressive language used to describe people of all races, ages, sizes, status’ but to be fair, I’m the guy who doesn’t get offended by the term “straight acting”… When I see that, I know what the person means (more or less) and understand what kind of person they’re looking for. We all have our buttons for words and expressions that affect us more personally than others so being wholly PC is impossible and more importantly draining of personality and personal preference which I am not against. For example, I wouldn’t date someone who wore lipstick, but writing “no lipstick” on my profile is a) too specific b) could be taken to mean “no one TOO gay” and that then offend someone or c) offend those who proudly wear lipstick… but, I would argue that’s my right to have as a sexual preference.
Clearly, I’m a huge promoter of the liberal use of language… for example, ten years ago hearing the word “homo” uttered would like make me assume someone was derogatorily referring to a gay man, but these days it’s more a “word we’re taking back” (hell, look at the name of our site!)… so I think words only have the power to hurt as much as you let them. That SAID, I do of course understand there’s words that go over the line- the obvious ones come to mind i’m sure- but to me those are few and far between and should be as I agree, we should be treating each other fairly and without anger… only then can words not be used to elicit such pain.
Eric
October 20th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I found that there is never a solid, true answer to the questions you ask. There are people who will preach to you till they turn blue that you should never put anything in your mouth without a condom on it. There are others that feel that you can take it tremendously farther than that. Many people fall somewhere in between. After a while, you find your own comfort level to what you feel is safe. I don’t think anyone should be judged on what level they choose. I found mine after many years of fear, confusion, misinformation and not building a level of trust with someone first. I don’t think there is one answer for everyone nor ever will be. The important thing is that we stop living our lives in so much fear and just live our lives in a way that makes us happy. And how we choose to live our lives will reflect on how we react to encountering a postive person in a dating situation. It has happened before and I am comfortable in both my reactions and actions.
anonymous
October 20th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Adam, I love you for bringing up this topic!
Fears kept in the closet become bogeymen, and I see a whole new generation of young people showing intolerance and loathing towards people with HIV unnecessarily. It makes me seriously angry, I want to bitch slap y’all. I argue, it’s because of your fear and the associated stigma you generate that the HIV epidemic continues.
Let me first say, I agree with Brad’s comments above. HIV is much more now a social issue than a disease as a gay public health issue. The stigma elicited against poz guys is often a form of internalized homophobia, as gay=AIDS has long been used in concert to humiliate and ostracize us. If the stigma was diminished, so too would the disease. How so? Everyone would then more likely know their status, and the appropriate treatments and precautions would more likely be taken. Plus fear makes people act irrationally, sometimes unconsciously helping make manifest that which they fear most.
Why do people have unsafe sex and refuse to get tested afterwards? A few options I can think of: complete ignorance that HIV still exists (unlikely), being sociopathic (relatively unlikely), or fear…fear of a positive result with its associated fear of illness and mortality, fear of stigma/judgment/being shunned…and significantly, fear of losing sexual freedom (including having to use condoms) because of the “diseased” label. You usually fear most what you’re guilty of dishing out yourself first.
Untested guys claiming they’re negative are much, much more likely than poz guys to spread HIV, I think – that’s who you should fear! It’s unsafe exposure to someone with a high viral load that’s worrisome; and it’s the initial stages of an untreated infection when someone has a high viral load and is most infectious. How would you or they know if they’ve recently contracted HIV unless they get tested regularly? Can you really trust people (or your boyfriend) when they say they get tested regularly? What if alcohol and/or drugs influence your decisions? At least with a poz guy you’ll always know the risk and will likely be more careful.
Since 1996, HIV treatment has improved profoundly. Mortality has plummeted, drugs regimens have improved, people live with HIV as opposed to AIDS, etc – old news.
[As an aside, Adam, one thing I'd like to point out is that health professionals as a source of sex risk info may not be the best. For one thing, they're usually "conservative" in behavior, and can get in trouble for in any way advocating "risky" sex, even if they believe otherwise. But from personal experience, I can tell you (and probably many of those health pro's would too if they could) that there is a hell of a lot of risky sex occurring out there not correlated with HIV transmission rates.]
My partners for the last 10 years have all been happy, open-minded negative guys. No, we weren’t worried all the time about sex, and we had good sex together. It wasn’t “a huge factor to address each time we expressed ourselves carnally”. Yes, they remain negative to this day, and I didn’t up and die on them either.
I’d be lying to you if I said my partners and I had “safe sex” 100% of the time. My “poz juice” was definitely swallowed many times after they brushed for one thing (we didn’t like sex without fresh breath after all) and I shot in a few eyes. We usually used condoms if I topped anally, but sometimes I fucked them bareback, “dripping” – without shooting inside though. And that was a mutual grown-up decision, not the wisest and safest of course; but given the results I guess it was “safe” after all. Most health pro’s would say “no way”.
However, there are studies out now suggesting medicated poz people are “essentially non-infectious”, which may explain why I was no risk after all to my partners. I’ve always believed that a “big load” of virus causes infection, that a healthy immune system can fight off small exposures. Who knows? So much more to be learned. But the evidence in my case supports the “non-infectious” status the study determined.
There’s a typical generation gap of knowledge and experience from the AIDS-experienced generation and the “homorazzi-generation” (20-somethings). Let me bridge that gap and tell you, being of the former generation and poz, that initially I too had all the same fears and much more despair over AIDS as you do – 20 years ago. I thought by now, considering all that we’ve learned, that attitudes would have changed for the better. Unfortunately, many 20-somethings now seem outright hostile and vicious towards poz guys from my experience, and still relatively HIV-ignorant. Obviously then there’s much work to be done…
So, Adam, can you really justify your worries if you’re told of all the sexually active sero-discordant relationships which exist both gay and straight, all the poz mothers giving birth to neg children, the many health professionals exposed to HIV by accident who never contracted (let alone those who work with poz people daily)? Do you really think you’re going to catch HIV that easily? Are you often having bareback sex? Did you realize that even if the trustworthy guy you have bareback sex with is HIV negative, he could have another latent STD of which he’s unaware, and it’s been shown that contracting one of these supposedly innocuous bugs heightens your risk for contracting HIV (sort of gives it a helping hand in the door)?
Yes, people are allowed their worries and fears. Remember though that most worries and fears are often irrational and blown out of proportion, and much of the time based on complete ignorance, often supported by their completely ignorant social group. The veneer of civilization is still quite thin – everyday you’re likely to see someone devolve into a caveman, grunting superstitions while gnawing on a drumstick.
If you were attracted to a guy in all ways except for the fact that he was HIV positive, would you pass on the opportunity of the love of a lifetime because of fear?
Yes, it’s important to take precautions still. No one wants to require medication, some which could make you feel sick (mine haven’t since the 90′s though), or get regular blood tests – those are enough reason to not catch it, let alone the worry about getting sick.
Many poz people who’ve been around since before “triple-drug regimens” have had problems admittedly (however, most are still alive, unlike even earlier generations). But for me and many positive others, in the 20 years I’ve had it the only serious health issue has been the harmful social stigma. Unless I tell someone I’m poz no one would know from appearances. I don’t have facial-wasting (from early drug regimens) or any other scary AIDS poster look. I appear quite well. And I’m not the only poz guy I know who looks healthier than many neg 20-somethings.
However, being upfront about being poz is a great way to be shunned and rejected while dating I’ve found, and more so in casual sex. Waiting until after a few dates is the only way usually for most guys to place “you” before the “fear of HIV”…and often not even then. It just shows that most people let fear rule their lives. Yer all a bunch of neanderthals! Make sure you put out a pumpkin on Halloween to drive away the evil spirits, because you never know, right?
There is still a generation of people with AIDS to care for compassionately here in our community – plus all the unnecessary new young people with HIV! – and a deceased generation and their struggles to remember, and a whole world of people who aren’t fortunate enough to live in a society like ours with our drug treatments to support. But speaking as a healthy poz guy, I don’t think it should be such a main “gay” topic as it’s long been, or such a huge worry anymore. And definitely not used as another excuse to victimize people. Vaccines are in the works, and therapeutic vaccines for poz people too, so the future is bright for everyone. Times have changed – Adam should not have had to even bring up this issue about “sero-discordant relationships”! It’s worry and fear that destroys, not actual disease so much. We’d probably be happier and healthier if we didn’t focus so much on the ever-changing and ever-present microscopic world, and focused more on the big picture.
Peace, love, unity, respect: words to live by.
Juan D
October 20th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
To address the questions posed in the article:
I would say that dating and/or sleeping with someone who is positive, when you yourself are not, is an issue of your comfort with risk. As “anonymous” points out, a number of us are of a generation where AIDS awareness generally takes the form of statistics and prevention and is not tempered with personal knowledge of those living with the disease. Thus few fo us understand what that life would look like. There is always the risk of contracting the disease, however careful you are but, on a sappy note though, how often do you meet someone really amazing and how much would you let get in the way of that? I think it all together possible that any of us will end up meeting someone for whom it might be worth making some sacrifices. To be honest, the idea of contracting HIV scares the good sense out of me. It is not at all a statement towards those living with the disease, just mortality fears of a twenty-something. To be open to a relationship with someone who is positive I know would take a huge amount of education on my part, both on risks and on reality of that life, to be comfortable taking that dive.
And just on a note mentioned earlier; I think it is the obligation of both(or more, this is a gay website) people engaging in sex to disclose their status. Inluding the positive person(s), should there be any. We are all entitled to know what risks we are taking, regardless of preventitive measures. Having the disease will, no doubt, get in the way of a few things. But I am sure that Adam and I and “anonymous’” partners are not the only ones open to that potential relationship.
David
October 20th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Hey…just a quick story…I was talking with someone online for about 3 months and we were very playful back and forth…had a few “video” calls and then we decided to meet. It was all planned. He came to my home, bag in hand with all the necessities for the evening. Tall, handsome, rugged he knocks on my door. I answer the door and he just stands there. He is hesitant for a moment then asks if I am positive. I say “yes”…he then goes into a huge speech about how he is ADHD and Obsessive compulsive and he would not be able to get an erection because he knew about me and he was really sorry…yadda, yadda, blah, blah… I then asked him…”If I had told you I was negative would you have come in and had sex with me??” He replied…”Yes..” Men lie all the time…and I will not become one of them…I feel sorry for him.
Steve
October 20th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
As a guy who’s been HIV positive for almost 20 years now and is perfectly healthy (responding well to meds, asymptomatic and undetectable viral load) I hardly even think of it within the disease/illness metaphor (referencing Sontag). I have found the entire dialogue is more significant for those referenced outside of the diagnosis than those who are contained within it. I’ve come to think that the inquiry about one’s status (aka being “clean” or not) has more significance for those (in their asking the question) than it does for any answer it actually provides. If someone says they’re negative does that provide a degree of comfort in engaging in (potentially) risky activity? Unfortunately that has been the route many people have taken in becoming positive. And avoiding contact with positive guys can reinforce this false sense of security. In many respects, positive guys can be less “risky” partners: the positive guy with an undetectable viral load kiss less infectious than a “negative” guy who doesn’t get tested for fear of his status, but has seer-converted since his last (if ever) test.
Personally, despite your personal choice for who to be with, one’s status should have less significance if you consistently and ALWAYS practice safe sex. Unfortunately, so few people trust themselves to be so vigilant and therefore rely on probably the most unreliable measure of their own safety: someone else’s word. If that word has a lot of meaning for you, I can only hope that you’re lucky. I’ve known more people who have remained being negative (while not discriminating, but always practicing safe sex regardless of ones stated status) than I do of guys who only dated negative guys (and became positive through unsafe sex through a boyfriend unwittingly passed it along through their own unsafe practices).
It’s no wonder that the answer to that fateful question can be so unreliable (and dangerous for some); it is both meaningless (or should be in practical terms) yet means so much. I suspect this dynamic contributes to those that are asking – getting the answer they want to hear – and those answering giving the response they know is expected. If you want to stay negative play the same (safe) way with everyone you’re with……(but play even better with positive guys :)
Adam
October 20th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Anonymous, to short answer the main question to me from your long (i’m sure you beat my article length hehe a good sign something interested you :) comment… no, i’ve never barebacked. I do understand the resultant questions from you and others afterward if hearing “i’m negative” as suddenly making it okay for me to have anal sex without a condom but for me that doesn’t apply. I’ve never been in a relationship long enough to even consider not using a condom as far as i’m concerned (less than two months for any “relationship”… pause for laughter ha).
All honesty, I think the decision to get to that point in your sex life is either done after a joint visit to the clinic after 3 months of not sleeping with anyone else… OR me being with someone long enough to trust them completely… COMPLETELY.
I am QUITE likely a rarity on this site to have been active for about 4/5 years and never had any raw intercourse… but, that’s been my personal decision and I’m “stickin’ to it”.
Dave, i’m sorry to hear about your story… it sounds wacked that the first thing a guy says upon you opening the door after months of talking and having the opportunity to bring up an issue that clearly matters to them is “are you positive?”.
Brad
October 21st, 2009 at 10:52 am
THE FOLLOWING IS A DIALOGUE BETWEEN MYSELF AND ANOTHER GUY ON DUDESNUDE.
After swallowing my pride and dignity I decided to share the following text with you as an example of the kind of abuse that HIV people deal with ….this is not rare but rather common place.
On 19 Aug 2009, at 9:37 am, Brad Mitchell wrote:
> Hi there,
> I messaged dudesnude memeber brist 673470 for the first time today and gave a compliment and asked if they wanted to play, the following are the messages that went back and forth.
>
> *my initial message:*
>
> To: *brist [history
> your very hot man…are you looking to play today?
>
> *his response to my message:*
> From: brist Date: *17 Aug 2009, 12:39*
ya but not with some old hiv patient! stop spreading disease around town, You’re what gives gay men a bad name, ‘looking for fun?’ ya im really looking for fun with a 90 year old
by the way, love the hat, who you emulating britney spears? sick bastard
>
> after giving it some thought i thought about just blocking him however I did feel it is abusive enough that it should be reported.
(AS A SIDE NOTE…i’M AN ATTRACTIVE MAN AND ONLY IN MY EARLY 40′S AND IN VERY GOOD SHAPE)
> To: *brist
>
> i think you are a very sad human being. It must be a heavy burden living with such hatred, fear and insecurities that you have to lash out at people who are just trying to be nice to you….i think your the one who is a plague on our community, you sad fool.
DUDESNUDE TOOK THE APPROPRIATE ACTION AND DELETED HIS PROFILE…THANK YOU DUDESNUDE.
Adam
October 21st, 2009 at 11:35 am
That’s pretty amazingly terrible.
I’m glad there’s an outlet for you to have that dealt with appropriately through the site… hopefully the guy will be too lazy to create a new profile and stay off it all together.
Still, I do hope you don’t think that a natural reaction of negative people! Some people are just plain crazy though… some of the reactions I use to get on there from people.. YIKES :P
bruin
October 21st, 2009 at 2:31 pm
successful +/- relationships do exist…ie sam and bronson page (married!!) –> http://www.peacelovelunges.com/
Brad
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 am
actually…I don’t want to come of as desperate needy or damaged in any way shape or form. I am simply trying to convey a tone that exist out there for poz guys, older guys etc. and what we face in todays networking mediums and our overall culture. I am actually a very successful man, I have a stellar career and I have an awesome partner who I love beyond words. We have a very loving and supportive relationship and it is open and honest, in short we have an awesome life. We actually met on manhunt and chatted for a year before we ever met in person. when we did meet it was an extraordinary experience.
we have both had other ltr’s and are at the age that we bring wisdom and experience to the table. We have an open sexual partnership, with guide lines that are comfortable for both.
We know relationships take commitment and work and a desire to build, love and dream and be friends, first and foremost. We are immensely committed to each other in building our relationship and have a strong monogamy of the heart. Sex does not take centre stage in our relationship however is a healthy loving sharing component to it.
I am not the sort of man to take to much bullshit from people..especially hurtful abusive people. I tend to steer away from that energy… and would rather work at practising love and compassion and joy in my spirit. I hope that the evolution of our community will embrace these concepts more. awareness is key…many people in our community are silent to the abuses that they receive around HIV Age Race. etc etc etc.
If we can create an air of sharing and honesty in our dialogue we can maybe begin to heal and think and motivate in lines with compassion and understanding in our community.
Sex addiction issues are huge factors in this debate, they contribute to low self esteem, drug abuse, increased casual sex to fill lonely voids, that lead to risky behaviour and thought patterns.
We should focus not on the judgment of these behaviours but rather embracing a culture of compassion,understanding and love.
We are all human, we are all damaged in some way shape or form from life’s harsh realities. We spend far to much time focusing on the negative rather than the positive of understanding and healing.
It is in my opinion that our community has dropped the ball big time on education, proper information, open honest dialogue and providing strong powerful tools and mentoring for self improvement .. beyond the gym.
Gay is simply not so gay any longer…we have become a culture of bitchy unhappy dysfunctional people for the most part.
I recognized this trend along time back and chose not to live my life in that manner. my partner and I live very much in mainstream society as open gay loving men with a vibrant healthy relationship.
I am… strong, healthy, loving, joyful and compassionate and HIV positive….and I have a wonderful happy healthy life. I wish you all the same.
Peace and love my brothers. xo
anon-guy
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:08 am
I am a positive male that was in a long term relationship with a partner that informed me he was negative… and found out after our break up and (assumingly) monogamous relationship that he wasn’t. Now I am ‘one of those guys’ that is out there, knows lots of people in the community and ALWAYS discloses my status if I am going to have sex. I respect people too much and feel it is my responsibility for my potential partners to decide if it is OK to head down that road. Food for thought- several of my positive previous sexual partners are online with profiles stating they are negative and tell people what they want to hear in order to make connections. Is this right? No. But they are out there.
Sadly, this is reality. Rather than worry about perception, stigma and reputation my suggestion is to be open and honest with everyone (whether you are having a fling to get off or looking for a relationship) and understand that this is a part of being gay and show respect for each other as humans. We all grew up wanting to be accepted, but now was are judging each other and taking huge steps backwards.
I admit, there are lots of people out there that have tried to get to know me and I have avoided getting myself into a situation where my friendship would be jeopardized because I know what the reaction would be. I would love to meet someone who is positive and live my life happily ever after, but until then I will have to discreetly filter through life and take things day by day.
(thanks for writing and article that is getting a reaction and using the site to talk about all aspects of being a homo… we need more voices in more directions)
Colby
October 24th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Adam, thank you thank you thank you for taking this topic on. I noticed a few months ago that HIV/AIDS was something that hadn’t been covered on the site, and I think it’s something that is so important and yet so overlooked by the younger generation, having not gone through the horrors experienced by previous generations who watched many friends die. Thank God that treatment, prevention, and education have all improved to the point where HIV/AIDS are not part of most young gay men’s daily lives. An unfortunate side effect of this benefit is that we sometimes forget about it; we forget that it’s still out there affecting (and infecting) people.
I’m lucky enough to be close friends with a number of H-razzi cast members, and I know that we don’t have a positive person in our close circle of friends (although I’m sensible enough to know that that might not be true). I also know that the reason for this isn’t a negative (e.g. a fear or aversion to positive people) but a positive (a lower number of positive people in Vancouver in our age group). This is a good thing, of course, since we all want HIV/AIDS prevalence to decrease. But as prevalence decreases, both ignorance and stigma increase. Before this article hit the site, we had a discussion about it last weekend at a dinner party, and I was shocked when we went around the table and a few people disclosed that they didn’t know ANYONE who is positive. Again, it’s good that there are fewer positive people out there because it means that we’re winning the fight against HIV/AIDS. But it means that for these friends of mine who don’t know anyone who is positive, HIV/AIDS isn’t even on their radar, and it should be, because we haven’t won yet. Yes, yes, I know that it’s “not just a gay disease anymore” and that the fastest rising population of new transmissions in the US is black women. But I don’t know any positive black women, and I know several positive gay men. I suspect that’s true of most readers of this site as well. HIV/AIDS is still very much a gay issue.
I was once very close friends with a positive guy, and he would tell me all the time that the worst part of HIV/AIDS isn’t doctor’s visits, or needles, or meds, or even worrying about his health constantly. The worst part, the very worst part, is the stigma. It’s the way he saw people look at him, the potential lovers that rejected him, the way he thought his mother would feel if she found out one day, and the way he knew people talked about him as being “unclean”.
I’ve often thought that there are two closets in gay world. The first closet most of us are able to come out of and embrace our gayness in a tremendous and positive way. Sites like Homorazzi help even more young and not-so-young gays embrace themselves. For many people, there is a second closet: the HIV/AIDS closet. You have to go back and re-live coming out of the closet all over again, slowly telling one friend, then another, then another, maybe swearing them to secrecy and not telling anyone else, maybe making sure that your family and place of employment don’t find out, and always wondering if people can tell when they look at you.
Thank you again, Adam. This post has certainly generated a lot of conversation and I hope you write about the issue again. I know that the pre-post conversation we all had at dinner last weekend was one of the most animated and interesting discussions our circle of friends has had in some time. Posts like these and the conversations that result from them are one way we can help to break down the stigma, and Homorazzi can be part of that fight too. When it comes to HIV/AIDS, we’re all on the same side here.
Adam
October 25th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
That’s an interesting concept colby, the “hiv/aids closet”… i totally get the sad similarities between it and coming out for the first time.
Brad
October 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Thank you so much Colby for your awesome post. you covered the topic quite eloquently, with sincerity, compassion and hope and encouragement…i agree with all you stated and thank you Adam for this awesome discussion too, i think it is very power and thought provoking with hopes that it will bridge gap’s heal, educate and stimulate our growth as a vibrant healthy community. When we look and listen with an open heart and mind it amazing what a powerful loving community we can become….and that in my opinion is what its really all about. :-)